Social search? Author rank? Terry Van Horne has his word
Terry Van Horne is widely known and esteemed by the SEO and search community for many reasons.
He is held in high regard for championing SEO and search industry standards as the veteran SEO professional that founded SEO Pros. He is recognized as the Director of the not-for-profit Organization of Search Engine Optimization Professionals (OSEOP). He is known for his work with David Harry at the SEO Training Dojo.
Terry is also distinguished by his colorful character, straightforward manner, sharp wit, and merciless honesty when offering his opinion on industry matters – and I’m delighted he has done so here!
In this interview, I ask Terry for his take on social search, Google’s authorship, and the related G+ attribution issue. (His choice words about the latest buzzword, “outbound marketing,” were entirely unsolicited.)
There’s been a lot of discussion about Google’s authorship and its future as a ranking signal. Where do you see this whole author tag thing going?
Author Rank is a gleam in every popular blogger’s eye. I don’t think it has a hope in hell of ever being a bigger ranking factor than it is now.
In other words, if someone is plugged into the mother ship they see their friends and those they follow. Beyond that, author tags are only suitable for use in a very limited way.
The day they make it a ranking algo is the day you start seeing author tags on e-commerce pages.
In our initial discussion, you had mentioned a glitchy issue with Google’s attribution loop. What needs to be corrected?
Glitchy? I bet those getting caught in the “glitch” have a more colorful word for it.
To some extent it is broken with too much mis-attribution. Spammers are now picking up and targeting sites that are vulnerable to mis-attribution.
Google is trying hard to complete the circle between G+ profiles and anywhere they are found, so if a site is not using the author tag they are vulnerable to someone commenting and including a link to a Google profile.
Another way is if an author links to a G+ post. To some extent Google is forcing the use of the tag by making those not using it a target for highjacking authorship.
There’s also a lot of buzz about “social signals” in search and “social SEO”… What’s your take?
Think about it. This is SEO 101! If it is not indexable, it can’t affect rank. Correlation is not causation!
Most of Twitter is not indexable! Large portions of Facebook – same deal. Even Google + is limited by the privacy settings.
David Harry and I were interviewing Joe Hall for our “Search Geeks Speak” around the time he was promoting a social search tool, and he shared with us that he was surprised how much data is hidden on Facebook by privacy and other impediments.
IMO, Social is about verifying other signals like links and general promotion with buzz and legitimate engagement. For instance, an increase in the velocity of link acquisition should be accompanied by increased “mentions” and other Social buzz.
We found the easiest way to move video up the rankings was to accompany it with social activity. It is even more important for press releases and other more temporal searches, such as for events.
What are your top 5 favorite sources of SEO & search information?
SEO Training Dojo and the SEO Pros Community, David Harry, Bill Slawski, Webmaster Help Desk and Google Search – the last of which is by far the most useful resource I have to learn about anything from SEO to programming or the phone number of Buzz Buzz pizza! The best pizza in Toronto!
I don’t read many blogs as I would rather filter info through the community I’m hanging in. I see what’s worth reading or worse, what people need to be protected from.
As a veteran SEO professional, what words of wisdom would you offer the new SEO copywriter?
Concentrate on writing good copy because good copywriting naturally uses primary and derivative keywords which make the copy more understandable/readable and RELEVANT – because in the end “Google does not buy anything! Their users do!!”
Please the users and you please “the Google”.
You are known as an advocate for SEO & search industry standards. Could you discuss your work at SEO Pros?
SEO Pros and the Ontario registered NFP (Not For Profit) OSEOP (Organization for Search Engine Optimization Professionals) have been around since 2003. We were the first organization for Search Engine Professionals.
At times we have participated in the discussion of SEO Standards, and have always had upholding standards a requirement for being included in the OSEOP directory.
Currently we are moving our focus from Standards (basically there are many ways to the same goal) to Risk Assessment, which is less of a moving target.
I’m also a big supporter in the belief it has to be an inclusive process. I like the ideals of the RFC (Request for Comments) process* where anybody can participate by just following the framework.
Any parting thoughts you’d like to share?
People say SEO has changed a lot. On page optimization is same as it ever was and well, quite frankly, I don’t see link building and lot of what others call SEO as actually being SEO!
IMO, it is internet marketing/promotion or the new buzz word that annoys the F…. outta me … outbound marketing.
There ya go boys’! An F bomb – the reputation remains unsullied!
CYa@DaTop!
Tmeister
* Request for Comments is the process by which many Internet Specifications and Protocols evolve.
About Terry Van Horne
Terry Van Horne has been developing and marketing websites since the early 90′s in various marketing and development positions, including: working as internet marketing manager for one of Canada’s largest real estate developers; SEO for an award-winning real estate company; and as search engine and marketing manager for ecommerce stores in the apparel and musical instrument industries. In 2007, he developed a YouTube Marketing Strategy for WorldMusicSupply, and to date those 300+ videos have received over 26,000,000+ downloads.
He is currently a partner with David Harry in the award winning SEO Training Dojo, a learning community, as well as three other marketing and industry news sites. Terry founded SeoPros.org, an organization for consumer advocacy and search engine optimization professionals, and is currently a Director of the NFP organization OSEOP that grew out of it.
photo thanks to fdecomite
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2012′s top 10 SEO expert interviews
January 15, 2013 • written by Laura Crest
So here they are (in no particular order): our top 10 interviews with a line-up of illustrious SEO visionaries, experts, thought leaders, luminaries…and really great folks!
Can you feel it? Conductor’s Nathan Safran did when his research, in partnership with Search Engine Watch’s Jonathan Allen, predicted that “2013 will be the year of the SEO.” Why? You’ll have to find out for yourself! Nathan also has some truly interesting things to say about Google’s Panda and Penguin updates, and the SEO and search industry as a whole.
And speaking of Jonathan Allen…the head honcho of Search Engine Watch shares the story – in intimate detail – of his path to his current role in part 1 of our 2-part interview. Did you know he began as a student of literature and philosophy? Learn more about Jonathan’s intriguing journey into the center of the SEO and search industry in this first installment! (Includes his break-through video, 50 SEOs, 1 Question).
An in-depth interview unto itself, in part 2 Jonathan shares his unique take on Google’s search, social, and clean-up initiatives (i.e., Search Plus Your World, Google+, and Panda/Penguin). He also describes where he sees the search industry going with his provocative, self-described “search manifesto.”
One of the first women pioneers of SEO (she discovered SEO before it was SEO), Jill Whalen of High Rankings shares her trail-blazing venture into the industry. Starting with her analytical curiosity dating “waaaaay back to the early 1990’s”, Jill was instrumental in forging the SEO and search industry – along with her reputation as a leading industry thought leader and practitioner. She also shares her insights into the primary factors influencing SEO, the importance (and rarity) of truly good copywriting, as well as the impacts of Google’s data encryption, over-optimization penalty, and Search Plus push on the SEO profession and search industry.
Renowned SEO veteran Eric Enge of Stone Temple Consulting is recognized not only for his expertise, but also his skillful interviews with the likes of Matt Cutts and Danny Sullivan. Eric credits his interviewing technique for allowing him to predict both the Panda and Penguin updates. Besides generously sharing his insights into how he sees the SEO and search industry evolving in the near future, Eric indulges us with a prediction for a huge update that should happen any day now…hmmmmm…
Among the “second wave” of women who followed in the footsteps of the original SEO pioneers, Jennifer Evans Cario of SugarSpun Marketing shares her self-taught foray into SEO and internet marketing. She also shares her passion and childhood inspiration for championing small business, as well as her reasons for migrating from SEO and search to blogging and social media marketing. Along with her personal sharing, Jennifer addresses the intersection of search and social with her “Pinocchio Effect” theory, and talks about the thought processes behind her (then upcoming) book, Pinterest Marketing: An Hour a Day.
The widely recognized co-author of Content Rules, C.C. Chapman had relatively humble beginnings as yet another corporate employee. In his interview, Chapman shares a “high-level view” of his path to becoming a writer, speaker, and consultant, and why he loves Google’s Search Plus. He also speaks to the role of SEO in content marketing, emphasizes the importance of “doing the unexpected” with your content, and discusses why indeed content is king.
Think link building, and you think Debra Mastaler. Like Jill Whalen, Debra is one of the first wave of SEO women who helped build the industry. Here she shares her story of her SEO beginnings – honing her link-building skills working for Whalen – and her holistic marketing approach to her profession (in fact, she refers to link building as link marketing). Find out what Debra has to say about the changing (pre-Penguin) link landscape, Google’s preference for big brands, and the plethora of link-building opportunities that social media and blogging have brought.
The talented journalist and Executive News Editor of Search Engine Land and sister site Marketing Land, Matt McGee also finds time to write his own daily blog, Small Business Search Engine Marketing. In this interview, Matt traces his rise through the SEO ranks, discusses why he chooses to focus on small business SEM, as well as what small business owners need to focus on in light of the Panda and Penguin updates.
In our interview with another force emerging from the “second wave” of women in SEO, Dana Lookadoo shares her path to her profession. She also talks about her re-branding to incorporate word-of-mouth marketing and social media sharing with Yo! Yo! SEO (hence SEO+). So if you were ever wondering how Dana arrived at that name, you’ll find out here! You’ll also find out about her passion for educating clients, her thoughts about the state of the SEO industry, and her words of advice for the new SEO copywriter.
Interviews and corresponding posts by Laura Crest, Blog Editor
photo thanks to woodleywonderworks
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From surviving to thriving: lessons from Sean McGinnis
October 30, 2012 • written by Laura Crest
Here, Sean shares his experience and the insights he has gleaned through his 14+ years in the internet marketing industry, from how he first started out with his online business to what he did to carve out his market niche in digital marketing training with his launch of 312 Digital.
A most informative and inspirational chat! Enjoy…and please feel free to ask Sean your own questions in the comments section below.
Please do tell: how did you start out in internet marketing?
I got my start in the industry the same way so many others have – I built my own web site. I launched DVD Verdict, a DVD movie review web site, in April 1999. Along the way, I learned a lot about HTML and web development.
Later, I sold websites to lawyers for a premier web development company focused on the law firm market. From 2006-2009, I managed the SEO team for that company. My team consisted of 37 consultants. I served as CMO and General Manager of an internet bar exam test-prep business. Today, I’m VP of Sales & Marketing for a startup in the legal space that drives highly qualified traffic to law firm web sites.
You recently launched your business, 312 Digital, as a “hard-core, how-to digital marketing training business.” Could you elaborate on what 312 Digital is about?
312 Digital offers a wide range of digital marketing training classes. The classes are always conducted in-person and they are limited in size to encourage the best possible learning environment.
Many people attend a conference or webinar to try to learn the various disciplines that fall under digital marketing – or they just muddle through and learn on their own.
Most conferences don’t teach attendees how to perform digital marketing tasks. Instead, they focus on teaching strategy or worse yet, simply highlight keynote speakers.
Most webinars don’t teach anything, either. Instead, they exist to get people to hand over their contact information so businesses can follow up and sell them something else – a product or a service. Webinars are the perfect lead gen machine – but they very rarely teach very much.
312 Digital provides a rigorous, structured method for learning the ins and outs of digital marketing. We offer classes in Email Marketing, Content Marketing, Social Media, Video and much more.
What inspired you to create 312 Digital?
The “idea” of 312 Digital is really a coming together of a few different ideas. I really wanted to do more speaking, because speaking and teaching is something I really enjoy.
I also love to work closely with people I love and respect. Collaboration is, to me, one of the highest art forms of professionalism. I love to surround myself with people who are much smarter myself: Better writers; better speakers; amazing people.
I have a pretty robust network and was looking for a way to collaborate with the best and brightest. 312 Digital is a coming together of these two things – collaborating with really smart people and teaching people about digital marketing.
Could you share your insights into what’s involved in starting up an online marketing business?
I’m not sure we’re doing anything different than what you would do. We’ve created a tightly defined offering – one that lends itself to robust storytelling. We’ve identified a group of influencers and shared what we are doing with them in hopes that they would actively share our story with their networks.
We have focused quite a bit on potential off-line marketing channels, because our target market is not necessarily heavily involved on-line. A significant segment of the market still needs to learn these digital marketing skills. We’re targeting them.
So what makes 312 Digital training unique?
My main goal for 312 Digital is to be able to offer the best possible training for the money. One of the ways we do that is via a business model and a mission that keeps the focus on the training and on serving our students.
The best way to illustrate what I mean is to share with you a few guidelines we’ve developed as I thought through the business model.
I know of no other provider who has stated operating principles like these. These are the cornerstones of what I would call “business integrity.” I believe we charge a fair price for an amazing day of learning. I don’t want that muddied or muddled by side deals and sponsorships. I want the focus on the classroom and the student.
Any words of wisdom you’d like to offer to the newer online copywriter or internet marketer?
My advice is this. Study hard. Work hard. Be a student of the game. Understand your customers. Understand the rules of the game. Understand who the judges are and what they want as an outcome.
My single most important advice is this – stop trying to find shortcuts to success. As marketers, it is endemic in us, and I cannot for the life of me understand why. If something is freely available, cheap and easy to execute it probably doesn’t work. If it does work, it won’t work for long.
More about Sean McGinnis
photo thanks to woodleywonderworks
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